Chucky,
Yea, this beta question is sure to get as many different options as
the bolting thing.

Best thing to do is send me ALL of the beta you have for New Zealand
canyons, and then I'll be able to make an informed decision if you
should publish or not.
Really looking forward to getting back there.
Maybe I can talk Joe into something end of this year !!
Rob

--- In pnwcanyoning@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Clearwater
<daniel_clearwater@...> wrote:
>
> Hellow from New Zealand to my friends and fellow Canyoneers in
Australia, Utah, PNW and Colorado.
>
> We've had this debate on our Kiwi_Canyons yahoo group and it ended
in a stalemate. I wanted to start putting route descriptions for the
canyons I'd descended online, but various people with various
opinions warned me against it. In the end I reluctantly decided not
to post the info, but i'm still wondering,
> When does it become Ok to start publishing information about
Canyons and Canyon descents?
>
> I can go online now and get detailed information about hundreds of
Utah Slots from personal websites, the ACA and even purchase several
Canyoneering Guide books. I could visit dozens of personal websites
about hundreds of Blue Mountain Canyons in Australia and order the
single aussie canyon guidebook. Canyoneeringnorthwest.com has plenty
of information, mostly about class C canyons with powerful currents
and sometimes dangerous waterfalls. Or I could wade through the
hundreds of European Canyoning websites for beta on thousands of
Canyons and practise my rusty French...
>
> So why is it that I cannot find beta about Canyoning in NZ? Why
should I withhold the information that I currently have? Why also
does coloradocanyons.org say;
>
> "
> For various reasons, I don't include beta (route descriptions) for
canyoning descents on this site"
>
> Obviously Canyoning has been going on for ages in Europe, quite a
while in Aussie and Utah, less so in the PNW and has barely begun in
Colorado and NZ. There must be a magical point during the
development of the sport when the canyoning community crosses the
line and starts making Beta freely available.
>
> Kiwi sceptics, mostly guides and cavers (a secretive but friendly
bunch) cite arguments as follows;
>
> "Its too easy to get yourself committed to a dangerous canyon,
especially if you don't know what you're doing."
> "You leave yourself open to prosecution or at least attack from
individuals, land owners, authorities..."
> "Ignorant idiots will get themselves hurt or killed and spoil it
for others."
> "There's a moral problem about giving out the information"
> "We're worried about the impact to the canyons."
> "It destroys the sense of adventure"
> "Many of the good ones are on private land, we don't want the land
owner restricting access when everyone starts coming to canyon there"
>
> I can appreciate the sentiment of many of these ideas, but surely
each community went through the exact same debate and came up with a
workable solution...
>
> Surely there's enough canyons to go round? Didn't someone else
introduce you to this wonderful sport? Won't the idiots hurt
themselves regardless of what you say? Won't the majority of beta
users have commonsense enough to take the warnings seriously? Isn't
it potentially more dangerous for people to explore canyons without
the information? Why shouldn't I have the opportunity to share the
information on Canyons I've done hoping that others will reciprocate
and give me more adventures to do?
>
> So again I ask for your opinions..
>
> When does it become Ok to start publishing information about
Canyons and Canyon descents?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chucky
>
>
> Kiwi Canyons Founder
> http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/kiwi_canyons
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
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